September 4, 2013
September 2008: Sebastian Vettel becomes the youngest ever Grand Prix Winner
Seems like ages ago but it was just 2008 at Monza when Sebastian Vettel, aged 21 and driving for Scuderia Toro, became the youngest ever Grand Prix winner taking that record away from Fernando Alonso.
In the four seasons since he has been World Champion three times. You can argue it's the car but Webber never could come close, either in a Minardi or a Red Bull.
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Seb can drive. No one is winning a championship in the modern era of F1 without a competent car.
ReplyDeleteExcept that Webber did come close in 2010. Vettel had only one more win than he did, they were equal on 2nd place finishes, they were equal on 3rd place finishes. Only once did Vettel finish on the podium when Mark won, and when Seb won Mark was on the podium twice. I was a whole hell of a lot closer than "Webber could never come close". After that season Helmut Marko took every opportunity to publicly insult, demean, borwbeat and humiliate Mark. He was never going to be given an equal chance after Vettel beat him to the title by 14 points. Also, Vettel never drove anything like the Minardi so the comparison there is pointless as well. Vettel has driven far better machinery in his short carrer than Mark has. The car he won with in this video? That was a works Red Bull with a Ferrari engine in it. Far cry from the Minardi's they used to be. Adrian Newey penned every car that Vettel has driven with the exception of the BMW he drove at Indy. He has been given top rate machinery his entire career while guys like Alonso and Webber rode around in shit cars punching above their weight for a few season before getting half decent cars. Let's not hate on Webber, shall we?
ReplyDeleteYup the STR is such a top 10 car even today 5 years later.
ReplyDeleteLook at the 2008 season SV beat MW that year too in a STR!! In the 2007 season he lost to Mark by 4 points in the WDC and he only drove 8 races of the season.
Weber cannot filter, that is Webbers problem, while some find it amusing and honest, it is also bad business when you air your teams dirty laundry. You never heard Schumacher blast Ferrari when they had a bad weekend or a pit stop was blown. Your team mates remember these things and the management does even more so.
Weber never came close after 2010, did the rookie rattle him? He sure did, word is the vibe in 2009 when Seb joined the team was that Mark would dominate him. Seb had 4 wins to Marks 2. That alone had to rattle the man, the kid stepped in as a rookie and took the reigns.
Mark tried to put a stamp on the team in 2010 and failed. It was downhill from there. and I personally was amazed to see him back in 2013 after his comments and actions in 2012 almost costing Seb and RBR another WDC.
I, for one am glad to see him leaving, his funny faces are.. well... funny and his candor, while refreshing, was out of line at times when he tossed him team under the bus. I am not even going to get into the Mult 21 hypocrisy.
Tit for tat. He only got into dishing out words after Marko publicly trashed him at every opportunity. Even Horner had to roundabout apologize for him in interviews over the last few years. I don't think Mark is truly exceptional, but he's been given the short end of the stick more often than not. Not to mention he was still in recovery from a serious injury in 2009. Vettel is a fantastic driver, but bias and selective memory have tainted Webber's reputation unfairly.
ReplyDeleteTainted Webbers reputation?
ReplyDeleteHe did a sound job at getting the crowds to Boo Seb off the podium. Mark is walking away with the mindless masses thinking he is the beat down good guy and Seb is the evil control freak that ruined Marks career.
I am in the minority, I actually like Seb, think he is a decent guy off the track and a FIERCE competitor in the car. I remember back to when Mark said he will not follow team orders and would pass Seb when he had the chance to, he is there for the win, he said it in 2011, and again in 2012 and demonstrated it both times. In 2012 he nearly cost Seb his WDC.
So what happens now at Ferrari, Fernando seems to have problems keeping his mouth shut prompting Luca to give him a lashing and a nasty press release..... and this is the #1 driver.
Does that give Fernando the right to just be shitty to the team, his team mate and trash everyone in the press.
Sometimes it is good to take the hint, and STFU.
Mark has done a good job at napalming that team on his way out.
"Tainted Webbers reputation?"
ReplyDeleteYes. Marko is very good at demeaning everyone who isn't Sebastian Vettel. That is undeniable fact.
"he is the beat down good guy and Seb is the evil control freak that ruined Marks career"
No, I'm pretty sure he's laid almost all blame on the team favoring Seb when they've said publicly they aren't. They've even said publicly to Seb to back off and he didn't. Tit for tat for what Webber did in Silverstone, but if you going to hold one accountable you hold them both accountable.
"I am in the minority, I actually like Seb, think he is a decent guy off the track and a FIERCE competitor in the car."
I like him a lot as well. But people like you need to quit equating criticism with blind hate. Sebastian isn't innocent of doing things he probably shouldn't be doing.
"Seb when he had the chance to, he is there for the win, he said it in 2011, and again in 2012 and demonstrated it both times."
So did Mark, yet you hold him accountable for racing when he wasn't supposed to yet call Mark a hypocrite for doing the same thing?
"So what happens now at Ferrari, Fernando seems to have problems keeping his mouth shut prompting Luca to give him a lashing and a nasty press release..... and this is the #1 driver."
And he's not wrong. Ferrari have not given him adequate machinery and he's performed beautifully in a rather terrible car for the pointy end of the grid. And he wasn't shooting his mouth off and calling them all names like Marko does, he simply said he wished he had a different car. He wants a Red Bull and despite Alonso delivering every single weekend since he's been there Ferrari haven't. Massa is performing to what the car is capable of in his hands, Alonso is performing as the level the car should be doing. He's not going around throwing tantrums, quit being melodramatic.
"Mark has done a good job at napalming that team on his way out."
Oh please. Marko has sown the seeds of discord for years. Trying to blame Mark for all of it is ridiculous and willful ignorance of what has been said about him ever since Vettel stepped into the Red Bull. You cannot hold one accountable for an action you aren't holding others to.
That was a type o above, I meant Mark not seb in this statement:
ReplyDelete"Mark when he had the chance to, he is there for the win, he said it in 2011, and again in 2012 and demonstrated it both times."
I liked Mark too, until all this BS unfolded. While I am probably biased I am more on the defensive because it seems the most vocal are Anti-Seb types. It appears everywhere you look there is booing and puking hatred for the guy because he is winning and dominant. Forgive me but I love to see someone dominate like that, I enjoyed it when Schumacher did it and I am enjoying it now. Anyone that says this season is boring because Seb is leading the WDC has not watched the races. Most of them were very exciting.
I am also sick of the, put XXX in his car and they will beat him. Above, someone said Massa is driving the Ferrari to its potential and Fernando is driving it above it. Then later it is said that Massa could win a WDC in the RBR car.
Then we have Mark, he is in one and cannot beat Seb, yet Seb beat Mark in the WDC with a Torro Rosso and Mark in the "A team" RBR car alongside DC.
Actually, I just looked, Seb in the STR car beat both RBR's in 2008. I would imagine Helmut could not wait to get him in a RBR. He was getting better results with the B team. Mark was lucky to keep a seat after that. Speed and Bourais did not get that allowance in the B team.
He beat Mark in 2009 when he joined the team, then the rest is history.
I agree, bad form on Helmuts part as well he meddles with the team and makes things much worse than they have to be. I would not want him as my boss.
I did not like some of my bosses in the past, but, I kept my mouth shut even when one of them was a complete dick to me. The business I am in is a small community and most know one another. If I walked around talking trash about my company and my boss, airing our dirty laundry, I would have a really hard time getting a job anywhere. My old boss never deserved that consideration but I had enough sense to know I would be black listed if I did something stupid like air dirty laundry.
Are you surprised Mark has not had an offer to drive from any other team to keep him in F1? Don't you think, if given the chance, he would love to be able to take his gloves off against Seb in another teams car? Is it possible no one gave him that chance? Maybe because he flaps his mouth, (no matter how shitty the boss is you just do not do that) or maybe because he really is not that hot of a ticket. He is a very good driver but I really do not see a WDC caliber driver there.
There are those who argued Barrichello was better than Schumacher too. Certain days he was but overall, he's the prototypical #2
ReplyDelete