November 27, 2012
Are we watching a Championship stolen?
Lights are shining on the dash and that should come straight from Race Control regardless of what marshals are doing on the track.
At the same tine, how could such a sophisticated system not detect the infraction? If it did happen as narrated on this clip then Vettel and Red Bull have some hardware to give back.
I'm searching, as is everyone else I'm sure for a clearer onboard of the incident... but here is the complete video by Nick G. illustrating all three suspected illegal passes by Vettel in Brazil, two in fact legal but the above, clearly not
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Wow, incredible.
ReplyDeletemore ferrari whining. just admit defeat and move on with it. alonso had to get to p1 and didn't. he controlled his own destiny and didn't do it. get over it and stop whining. its always someone elses fault.
ReplyDeleteAnd I don't see Ferrari demanding action on this.... too bad because it was a clear cut infraction but I'm sure Alonso would rather win it on the track. It just makes Vettel look bad.
DeleteDid you even watch the top video Chef? He's clearly making a pass under yellow which is explicitly laid out in the rules, and explained by the narrator. It has nothing to do with Ferrari, and everything to do with fair sporting regulations meant to protect drivers and course workers.
DeleteI stated from the start that his rapid advacement through the field after his spin was very odd. Clearly Vettel was pushing his luck trying to regain places and gave no regard to the flags and situation on-track
during the speed broadcast, they showed one of the passes and the yellow light was for "road conditions / debris". thats the word they received from race control.
DeleteHave you even watched either of the videos? Interesting stuff indeed.
DeleteThe Chef = in denial
DeleteVettel sucks Bernie's cock for a living.
There's a Marshall's post at the beginning of the straight waving green.
ReplyDeleteThe flag lights are clearly on when he makes the pass
DeleteIf you pause just about at 10:29 on the video, you can see the waving Green from the flag stand that James is referring to. The straight was green long before the light board and so that was a legal pass.
DeletePeople are saying that it was a legal pass because Verne lifted on the straight to let Vettel by (which is questionable on it's own).
ReplyDeleteSo basically they're saying you're allowed to pass under yellow if the car you're passing is has an issue (like Marko yelling in your ear to let Vettel past).
Maybe Ferrari should start a Fiat F1 team so they can get some easy passes?
Not to mention Schumacher also letting Vettel by.
people can say what they will but the rules DO say passing under yellow is verboten! I guess Vettle was Luckier than I imagined. Hit and no damage, wrong tires and then a safety car, infraction and no penalty. Clearly Alonso was punk'd by Felipe when he recommended that macumbeiro!
DeleteSchui pass was made under full green/racing conditions. Unless a car is literally breaking down or leaving the track no passes are supposed to be made under yellow conditions. This is for the overall safety of everyone on the track; the drivers don't know what the yellow flags are for, and as we often hear the excuse 'I didn't see _____' (Pastor in Q1/Q2 missing the weight bridge) there is a good reason for this.
DeleteI mean, if you can't see flashing lights right next to the course, you're not going to see debris or a stricken car, course worker, etc.
As I said in a post yesterday, Vettel made up a LOT of places in those few laps and now we see why - everyone else was respecting the yellow flags and Vettel was passing while they were 9/10ths speed.
ReplyDeleteThe sky race feed, and BBC feed, didn't show any of this - I've watched both and they're lacking in real footage of how he managed to get so many places back in so few laps. Aside from the HRTs and maybe the Caterhams, the other cars he passed are not so slow as to be easily passed in two or three laps, IDFC how good that red bull is
Gee, and I was more angry about Vettel driving Kobayashi off the track with no penalty.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, whats one more illegal thing for RBR this year?
-B
IIRC, Speed covered this during the race, as Charlie Whiting was "searching for video evidence of the passes made under yellow" that was brought up by Ferrari on lap 24 or 26 concerning the passes done on laps 8 or there abouts. It was deemed "no evidence found" because the yellow was "lights reflecting from the Pirelli signs on the side of the track" and then they later said "the yellow lights were for track conditions, and the marshals were waiving the green flags for the course to be green."
ReplyDeleteI don't buy that for a second; Grosjean was off in the weeds at that part of the track, they couldn't possibly have retrieved his car that quickly
DeleteFirst I want to say I think Alonso is one of the best F1 drivers, but please people, stop whining about him loosing the championship. Didn't you think Ferrari would have tried anything to get this title, including watching Vettel every second to blame on him? By the way, this was a 20 race championship and Alonso didn't loose it in the last race.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion Vettel is a well deserved champion, because he won more races, took more pole positions and drove more fastest laps than Alonso. And so he should be the champion.
And if you are talking how immature and unfair Vettel is, didn't you see the ridiculous photo of Fernando with the paintball gun before the Austin race? And wasn't it Alonso who won a GP a few years ago because his teammate crashed on purpose?
If you think Vettel won the championship only because he had the best car also remember that his teammate only became sixth this year. And in generally also remember he scored points in his very first race and won a race in a Torro Rosso!
Think about that ;)
Once again, this isn't about any specific driver. It's an issue of following the same rules as everyone else. Hammy was dq'd from quali for an empty tank, and so was Vettel, etc.
DeleteFanboys, ya'll can never seem to separate yourselves from the part where they have well-defined rules.
what he said! :) I can just imagine if it had been a red car rather than a Red Bull!
DeleteGiven the first half of the season Webber enjoyed, I can think of no logical explanation for his rather dismal display during the latter half being attributed to anything other than Red Bull brass politely reminding him that he would not be contesting for the WDC.
DeleteIf it walks like a fanboy, quacks like a fanboy, then it must be a fanboy.
RedBull has never followed the rules, why should they start now? The whole "senna" comment after the race is arrogant (along with their bendy noses) and so is this rubbish that he didn't pass under yellow flags. If the sport was serious about being strict, they'd do something about it. But it might make Ferrari look like sore losers. But who else could possibly bring this to attention and not being called sour grapes?
ReplyDeleteWhat I find interesting is the total failure of "real" journalists to dig this up and get a clarification from the FIA one way or the other. But I guess they were too busy eating free shrimp in the Red Bull hospitality :)
DeletePeople are linking to an image showing lap 6 with a green light flashing. That image is incorrect as its the wrong time in the race and Seb is behind a Marussia. Its clearly pro seb propaganda.
ReplyDeleteridiculous!
ReplyDeleteKOB pitted just after the pass, there was no opportunity for VET to hand back the place.
Let common sense prevail, stewards made correct decision.
I'm losing track here... where does Kobayashi come into this?
DeleteGiven today's technology and F1 budgets, perhaps this demonstrates the time has come for all of the cars to carry sensors which can immediately alert the stewards to track violations
ReplyDeleteI really don't think anything will come of this. I imagine they'd give him the equivalent of a drive thru. That would put him 20 seconds down the road. Which would still be 7th and enough to win. Excluding him from the race would just seem too extreme.
ReplyDeleteSince nothing will happen, I bet they won't do anything to avoid the bad press.
That being said, I would really like to cut both his pointer fingers off.
In fact if they give 20" penalty to Vettel he would be 8th, 0.8 seconds behind Verne. So he would lose the Championship by 1 point.
DeleteThis incident was highlighted by Martin Brundle live as it happened during broadcast. He actually asked the question, "Vettel is passing under yellow lights, surely this will be investigated"? Normally he gets things right, but it seems there are different sets of rules for different drivers. It reminds me of the Senna incident when he was disqualified for taking the auxiliary run off road when he collided with Prost in Japan (the actual purpose of the run off area) only to be later disqualified from the race. F1 seems very corrupt to me! Shame, they are all great drivers and deserve credit for this talent...but if the authorities fix results it kills the sport!
ReplyDeleteThe Verne pass is a clear infringement. If Vettel lost the Championship because of someone else doing similar then Red Bull would absolutely appeal and rightly so. Rules are for everyones safety, penalty should be enforced.
ReplyDeleteUpdate: at about 0:51 seconds on top video the marshal the in tower on the left hand side appears to be waving a green flag. Slow motion in link below.
ReplyDeletehttp://s7.directupload.net/images/121128/xq7wq2yp.gif
This marshal post is on the pit exit, so is the flag for all racers?
Vettel didn't pass under Yellow as that marshall was waving a green flag (for all racers not just pit lane) and Vettel's overtake took place after it. File closed...
ReplyDeleteThe vids have been removed!!
ReplyDeletereally is hard to see on lap 4 what the marshal is waving, for sure though that section has changed from green to yellow from lap 3 to lap 4; and if you follow the inboard camera on Vettel's car this demonstrates exactly that, lap 3 onboard light goes out at turn 3 exit, and on lap 4 onboard light goes out at the end of the straight and entry to turn 4 on lap 4. It is clear on the BBC on lap 3 the marshal on the pit exit is waving a green flag, but this is on lap 3 and not longer applies on lap 4 as the side flashing light has changed from green to yellow, so the circuit official had wanted that section to go yellow, as the onboard lights show from lap 3 to lap 4 as well; what is in doubt is what the marshal is waving on lap 4, as is really unclear... If he is waving anything at all... I can't really see him waving anything, and if that is the case it is a clear yellow section. Still, you would also think that if they have change that section from green to yellow, they want the whole section yellow, not just the 50 or 100 yards between the light and the manual marshall... So there was 2 out of 3 indicators clearly showing yellow, and 1 indicator know one is really sure of on lap 4... I'm not sure what the answer is, but in reality I think they have been telling the drivers all year that they should obey the lights, and the whole point of yellows is to take caution and not do anything that could harm others while on the track, so caution is first and foremost; I think Vettel should not have passed, as 2 out of 3 indicators are telling you there is possible danger to someone else's life and yours. Only when it is clear you are in green zone, including your dash should overtaking be allowed, safety first approach. Imagine if that was a train system, what would be mandated by the system, if in doubt, do the safest thing, slow down, prepare to stop. So that raises a point; I think if the technology fails, cars lights should automatically go yellow, stop the race, or until everyone is clear they are on a manual system.
ReplyDeletere-up slo-mo
ReplyDeletehttp://files.speedtv.com.edgesuite.net/img/static/editorial/f1-vettel-timelapse.gif
seems to be a green flag alrigh....