Since we are on such a GT-R roll, here is CAR's video of their Nissan vs Porsche 997 TT shootout.I'm not sure how their claim of having the first GT-R in the UK squares with the Autocar video released earlier in the month (I guess they had the first white one?) but I will give them marks for using telemetry, real time wireless data recorders none the less, nice! Can we see the full data?
Watching the video, I hope they edited in slides for dramatic effect because there is no way driving any car that sideways yields the best possible times.
This might also remind you of the kind of talent Tiff Needell has as a TV presenter and driver...
In this month's issue, CAR has the full article with the BMW e92 M3 and the Audi R8 compared as well. Quite interesting, for the M3, not one complaint about brakes!
Oh dear ! Seriously I find it difficult to believe that that was an actual 'Car' production ? Stick the telemetry, I'd take a racer like Harris's opinion over that lot anyday.
ReplyDeleteThis "sounds" like another setup because the driver is again acting frightened behind the wheel of a 911... that line is soooo overplayed.
ReplyDeleteThe Freep says that they should find one of those Cayman S's that have been modified with a GT3 engine and tires, and it would be the best Porsche to take on this sill over-eating GT-R.
Call Walter Rohrl in to show those bitches how to drive a 911.
ReplyDeleteIF you were to believe this video and the guy was indeed that sideways on his best lap then the one second deficit is easily cleared up simply by less dooshy driving.
ReplyDeleteTo me what this says is "if you drive like doofus, you will be a faster dufus in a gt-r" which is a awesome engineering accomplishment.
I wonder if something like this went down:
GT=R owner: can I have a car please?
Nissan: No, piss off...
GTR owner: c'mon fellas, how about if i promise a major UK mag will trash a Porsche with it?
Nissan: Interesting...but if you fail we we have programmed the car to transform into a mechanical sumo wrestler and sit on you while emitting computer controlled organic compounds on your head
it would explain his jumping for joy anyway! :o)
OK... who has driven a 997 Turbo?
ReplyDeleteI see no show of hands....
I did, and most magazines confirm it (read past EVO issues). The handling from the factory on the 997 Turbo is way off. It's a car that despite having AWD has severe snap oversteer.
Also, in the 911 platform, some sideways action powering out (not in) gives you the faster times, as the rear engine weight bias allows maximum forward thrust with some rear drift angle (My fastest laps at the track are usually when I'm very aggressive on corner exit... no lift, just some opposite lock). Nevertheless some slides in that video are way dramatic.
Bottom line, IMO, is that the 997 Turbo is a flawed track car. It's mostly a straightline authobahn GT cruiser, and its handling is severely biased towards "fun" sideways(?) rather than track time. A GT3 will be faster in 95% of the tracks.
Ah... and the GT-R commands greta respect for beating fairly the 997 Turbo at the being the best and fastest high-tech, FAT, AWD, Turbo GT / Track-Car(?)
ReplyDeleteI have never seen you on a fast lap with that much opposite lock....ever. In fact I have never actually seen you do smoky drifts either, Tasteful slides yes but over the top drifts like that never.
ReplyDeleteTo top it off I do not see Supercup cars come out of turns out of shape like that either.
I think they just edited in those ludicrous slides because it looked good
Agreed, THOSE slides are exaggerated, but check the Stig's FTs and Tiff's on street cars and you will always see tail-out action on corner exit.
ReplyDeleteNevertheless,some of those hairpin turns mimic more rally type turns, and we already know how is the fastest way around in a AWD car.
How would you do Pocono East's hairpin in a 500hp AWD car for a FTD? Betcha there will be some good smoke in the process..
A well setup racecar is another story. My main point is that the 997 Turbo is a lousy track car, and the GT-R is clearly better at that...
I have no horse in this race, neither car especially appeals to me. I do like a straight fight though.
ReplyDeleteSo just to confirm. The GTR is probably the best value combined road and track performance car on the market and soundly beats the iconic 911 Turbo.
ReplyDeleteIMO that is not comfirmed. The ZO6 may still be the best value combined road and track performance car on the market.
ReplyDelete-Freep
Vote +1 for the Z06, even on looks alone, never mind the RWD fun factor.
ReplyDeleteJason Plato seemed to have some issues with the GT-R as a track car, very fast in slow corners but with too much understeer on medium and high speed turns. We will just have to drive one ourselves to form a proper opinion. Hello Nissan?
AC, you say you have no horse in this race, but you are so biased against the GTR... wonder why?
ReplyDeletePlato NEVER said the GTR was BAD at the track. He just said that it slightly better suited for the road, and his real conclusion was that it was a GREAT car.
The Z06 doesn't do it for me. It delivers the numbers, but lacks the feel and experience of a well engineered car. It just basic old concepts applied cheaply (leaf springs, 2 valve cylinders for god's sake!!!, and 19th century interior and ergonomics). Might as well buy an original AC Cobra....
Several reputable great drivers have voiced their strong reservation against the Chevy's handling, dynamics and overall experience. Only Clarkson loves it in the same way he loves the AMG SLGay...
It's really more like a case of getting disillusioned with some of these magazines I used to put faith in. I think they are not playing it down the middle. And yes, silly me for ever thinking they might have.
ReplyDeleteYou can't condemn the z06 without having driven it right after you made the ""show of hands if anyone has driven a 997TT" post, that's cheating!!!!
Also after all the yacking we do about heavy cars, it sounds funny to get all googlie eyed about a 3900lbs sumo ballet dancer. :o)
I'll say this for the GTR, it sure starts discussions, wish we were all somewhere drinking beer arguing about this!
"The Z06 doesn't do it for me. It delivers the numbers, but lacks the feel and experience of a well engineered car. It just basic old concepts applied cheaply (leaf springs, 2 valve cylinders for god's sake!!!, and 19th century interior and ergonomics). Might as well buy an original AC Cobra...."
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely agree. No comparison whatsoever. Also don't forget that on a damp track or road a Z06 would be destroyed by the GTR.
I've driven the Z06 (a C5 at least and even AutoXed it). New one is more of the same with more power.
ReplyDeleteSat in the new one (C6) and doesn't even want me to turn the ignition/starter on. Sorry, but I'm a big believer in engineering, quality and making forward progress. Additionally, can't endorse a product that's highly compromised by a company that cuts corners with serious mismanagement, spends most of its costs subsidizing heavy benefits for its retired workforce and makes a living out of selling government subsidize trucks that drink half of the world's oil production.... (This is a different topic for another post: The final well deserved doomsday for Detroit...).
Ironically, if GM built more cars with the same philosophy as the Z06 the would kick serious ass. For reference, the Z06 weighs 3100lbs, practically an Elise these days.
ReplyDeleteOK the interior is not Porsche quality but have you seen the GTR interior???
wait....why am I defending the Z06, isn't that the Freep's job?
ReplyDeleteDon't confuse quality and ergonomics with taste. You might not like the GTR interior but I bet you it will last for ages and the fit and finish is one par with Germany's best.
ReplyDeleteOn taste, this car is clearly going after the GranTurismo (as in PlayStation) generation. Yeah, we play the game too but we are the Olds dudes in that space...
CG, you could not be more wrong on all counts.
ReplyDeleteHere, I'll let Tiff do the talking...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2o9toT6Cve0
-Freep
Just to be sure we get more wood into the fire, here ya go:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.evo.co.uk/videos/planetevovideos/217626/116_nissan_gtr_v_porsche_gt3.html
Fattie beats the lightweight, again. With no fancy oversteer on either car, except in last turn in the 911, but it was already lagging.
Just wanted to point that I'd have a GT3 over the GTR every day of the week, but darn if the fattie is fast!