and progress was made towards eliminating hypocrisy in F1: repealing the team orders regulations (at least as presently worded) was proposed to the council. Let's see if they get this right.
Sanity prevails? It's a farce (as usual). Carry on with "the show" because the sport died long ago. They'll be asking Massa to crash next, since it's ok to break the sporting code.
Yes sanity prevails, if you look at many commentators the most hilarious comments were those who said that Ferrari's worst crime was doing it in such a goofy obvious manner. So it's OK if you don't get caught? it's OK if you tell your drivers to hold station and not fight for position?
To me team orders should either all in or all out.
Team orders have been in F1 for as long as F1 has been around, people just need to get over it already.
These teams invest 100's of millions of dollars per year into producing two cars for two drivers, and if they see fit during a point in the season where they want on driver to finish ahead of the other as one is out of the championship, and one could still win it, then by all means it should be the teams decision to do whats best for them.
Its funny how no one made to much of a big deal out of team orders when Ferrari let Kimi by Felipe by pitting him early and coincidently loosing the lead at Brazil in 2007 so Kimi could win the WDC, even though it was Felipe's race to win as he was dominating it.
What other rules can you break and only have to pay $100k as a fine? Traction control? Launch control? Illegal aerodynamic surfaces. This is not about whether a particular rule should be there or not, its about what happens when you break a rule. This sucks big time and sets a bad precedent.
Bringing the sport into disrepute? Please don't tell my mother I work in Formula 1, she thinks I play piano in a whore house!.
No really, how can you say that after Mosley and after Mclaren got caught with a spy inside Ferrari? not to mention Singapore and the whole USF1 fiasco....disrepute? LOL
@A train: That article is what drives me crazy about Brit journalist. I love Pitpass, it's one of the sites I read all the time but, leaving aside the hallucinations about MClaren MC12 and Aston Martins making Ferraris redundant. Leaving aside the loony bin theory that Alonso spun on command and stalled the engine on purpose. ALONSO DID NOT RETIRE FROM SPA BECAUSE HE STALLED THE ENGINE, HE RETIRED BECAUSE HIS SUSPENSION BROKE!
And the jist of the article is that things in F1 should be done in a way to please gamblers? Please.
In my opinion, we can see what happened in two ways: 1- Ferrari did not give a damn about the rules and gave a team order not worrying enough about masking it because they think they are untouchables. 2- Ferrari tried (a bit on the dumb side) to mask the team order.
In any of the case, Ferrari is guilty because they have not respected the rule. You can like or dislike a rule, but as long it is a rule, you have to respect it.
On the other side, FIA not enforcing the rule yesterday (and in many other occasions with Ferrari, McLaren and other teams and drives), simply gives the idea that rules are not strict and, if and when someone is caught trespassing them, there will be an arbitrary judgment case by case.
If you put rules, you have to enforce them in a dramatic way. Otherwise, it would be easier to have no rules at all.
Please forgive my english, I am writing from Italy.
I completely agree with AC on the PitPass story. Come on, is that really a journalist?
The only thing you get from that article is the genuine hatred against Ferrari, you can clearly feel that. Can any serious journalist say that Montezemolo is a "desperate salesman"? Does he have any idea of the sales number of Ferrari compared to Aston Martin?
I'm Italian and not a big supporter of Ferrari anyway, but that article completely lacks dispassion and there's no analysis.
The real point is that we already saw team orders this year, and not only from Ferrari. McLaren and Red Bull telling one of their drivers to back off to save fuel is exactly the same, just more clever.
Ferrari was stupid, or better Massa and Smedley were, and the team already paid for that with a big fine.
Changing subject, I start having serious doubts about british journalism. I already had a major blow when Nigel Roebuck, in its farewell story in Autosport, stated that Senna's crash in Imola was a driver mistake. I really faltered with that...
@AC: I did not at all mean that I agree with everything Lawrence rambles about in that article. What I find interesting is the book-making analogy; not to please gamblers, but that, apparently, some houses will not even make a line on F1 because of what they perceive as potential for rigged outcomes.
You could use a similar analogy with the making of a market in a security.
Wow, and I thought that the British press could not get any more hilarious. And to think he was writing an article about integrity!! You think the Italians make themselves look silly, then you read some British motoring journalism and realize who the real clowns are.
"...The Reporter considers that Ferrari’s argument relating to the fact that Mr Fernando Alonso was faster than Mr Felipe Massa appears not to hold up. Indeed, a few laps prior to the contentious overtaking, Ferrari’s drivers reduced their engine speed at the request of their respective race engineers. Then Mr Fernando Alonso increased his engine speed with Mr Felipe Massa’s being informed. Mr Fernando Alonso was therefore benefiting from a definite performance advantage over Mr Felipe Massa in the moments preceding the contentious overtaking..."
Sanity prevails? It's a farce (as usual). Carry on with "the show" because the sport died long ago. They'll be asking Massa to crash next, since it's ok to break the sporting code.
ReplyDeleteYes sanity prevails, if you look at many commentators the most hilarious comments were those who said that Ferrari's worst crime was doing it in such a goofy obvious manner. So it's OK if you don't get caught? it's OK if you tell your drivers to hold station and not fight for position?
ReplyDeleteTo me team orders should either all in or all out.
Team orders have been in F1 for as long as F1 has been around, people just need to get over it already.
ReplyDeleteThese teams invest 100's of millions of dollars per year into producing two cars for two drivers, and if they see fit during a point in the season where they want on driver to finish ahead of the other as one is out of the championship, and one could still win it, then by all means it should be the teams decision to do whats best for them.
Its funny how no one made to much of a big deal out of team orders when Ferrari let Kimi by Felipe by pitting him early and coincidently loosing the lead at Brazil in 2007 so Kimi could win the WDC, even though it was Felipe's race to win as he was dominating it.
What other rules can you break and only have to pay $100k as a fine? Traction control? Launch control? Illegal aerodynamic surfaces. This is not about whether a particular rule should be there or not, its about what happens when you break a rule. This sucks big time and sets a bad precedent.
ReplyDeleteAll those rules are enforceable in a non subjective way, Team orders simply is not.
ReplyDeleteWhat about bringing the sport into disrepute? I'm pretty sure that's happened here, and last time...
ReplyDeleteBringing the sport into disrepute? Please don't tell my mother I work in Formula 1, she thinks I play piano in a whore house!.
ReplyDeleteNo really, how can you say that after Mosley and after Mclaren got caught with a spy inside Ferrari? not to mention Singapore and the whole USF1 fiasco....disrepute? LOL
The FIA brings the sport enough disrepute through its mind-bogglingly stupid rules.
ReplyDeleteI tend to agree with Mike Lawrence on this one...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_feature_item.php?fes_art_id=41908
@A train: That article is what drives me crazy about Brit journalist. I love Pitpass, it's one of the sites I read all the time but, leaving aside the hallucinations about MClaren MC12 and Aston Martins making Ferraris redundant. Leaving aside the loony bin theory that Alonso spun on command and stalled the engine on purpose. ALONSO DID NOT RETIRE FROM SPA BECAUSE HE STALLED THE ENGINE, HE RETIRED BECAUSE HIS SUSPENSION BROKE!
ReplyDeleteAnd the jist of the article is that things in F1 should be done in a way to please gamblers? Please.
In my opinion, we can see what happened in two ways:
ReplyDelete1- Ferrari did not give a damn about the rules and gave a team order not worrying enough about masking it because they think they are untouchables.
2- Ferrari tried (a bit on the dumb side) to mask the team order.
In any of the case, Ferrari is guilty because they have not respected the rule. You can like or dislike a rule, but as long it is a rule, you have to respect it.
On the other side, FIA not enforcing the rule yesterday (and in many other occasions with Ferrari, McLaren and other teams and drives), simply gives the idea that rules are not strict and, if and when someone is caught trespassing them, there will be an arbitrary judgment case by case.
If you put rules, you have to enforce them in a dramatic way. Otherwise, it would be easier to have no rules at all.
Please forgive my english, I am writing from Italy.
I completely agree with AC on the PitPass story.
ReplyDeleteCome on, is that really a journalist?
The only thing you get from that article is the genuine hatred against Ferrari, you can clearly feel that. Can any serious journalist say that Montezemolo is a "desperate salesman"? Does he have any idea of the sales number of Ferrari compared to Aston Martin?
I'm Italian and not a big supporter of Ferrari anyway, but that article completely lacks dispassion and there's no analysis.
The real point is that we already saw team orders this year, and not only from Ferrari. McLaren and Red Bull telling one of their drivers to back off to save fuel is exactly the same, just more clever.
Ferrari was stupid, or better Massa and Smedley were, and the team already paid for that with a big fine.
Changing subject, I start having serious doubts about british journalism.
I already had a major blow when Nigel Roebuck, in its farewell story in Autosport, stated that Senna's crash in Imola was a driver mistake. I really faltered with that...
@AC: I did not at all mean that I agree with everything Lawrence rambles about in that article. What I find interesting is the book-making analogy; not to please gamblers, but that, apparently, some houses will not even make a line on F1 because of what they perceive as potential for rigged outcomes.
ReplyDeleteYou could use a similar analogy with the making of a market in a security.
Wow, and I thought that the British press could not get any more hilarious. And to think he was writing an article about integrity!! You think the Italians make themselves look silly, then you read some British motoring journalism and realize who the real clowns are.
ReplyDeleteFerrari International Assistance to the rescue!
ReplyDeleteThe best excerpt from the hearing was this one:
ReplyDelete"...The Reporter considers that Ferrari’s argument relating to the fact that Mr Fernando Alonso was faster than Mr Felipe Massa appears not to hold up. Indeed, a few laps prior to the contentious overtaking, Ferrari’s drivers reduced their engine speed at the request of their respective race engineers. Then Mr Fernando Alonso increased his engine speed with Mr Felipe Massa’s being informed. Mr Fernando Alonso was therefore benefiting from a definite performance advantage over Mr Felipe Massa in the moments preceding the contentious overtaking..."
Hey, wait... Ferrari cheated their own driver?