October 22, 2008

Nissan GT-R and Porsche GT2 vs the Axis STFU3000

We've all marveled at the reported performance of the Nissan GT-R, many wondered if such performance is even physically possible. Porsche for the first time ever weighed in, magazines raved, web sites castigated, video evidence has been questioned. In other words, there has been much entertainment for tracktard gearheads.

Now, call us cynical skeptics, but so far we have not seen evidence that satisfies us one way or the other about the GT-R and other cars it has been compared to. "Godzilla the Giantkiller"is just too good a magazine selling headline not to be taken with a grain of salt. There have been many tests but none have had the level of detail or transparency to convince us fully.

So here is what we propose: Axis of Oversteer will supply a Porsche GT2 and we make an open call to curious owners of a Nissan GT-R to provide Godzilla for head-to-head testing.

Let's get something out of the way: I've read comments about Axis being a Porsche fanboy site. I can assure you we have no vested interest in Porsche A.G. Of course we LIKE Porsches, what true car maniac does not but our main interest is performance. CG owns a GT2 it's true, but I guarantee that is only because he could not find a 430 Scuderia at a premium that would not include the removal of precious body parts. We drive BMW and Audi, I even have a soft spot for Renaults when I go to Europe! We get into arguments with people all the time because we call for the death of the stick-shift and proclaim the virtues of paddle-shifters (though, ironically, at the moment none of us owns a car with a robo-box!). In other words we are interested in how to go fast not in what to go fast in.

I can guarantee we don't care what the results will be but we DO CARE how conclusions are reached and how data is gathered.

So how would this work? Obviously this would be in consultation with with the GT-R owner but the main goal is to eliminate as many variables as possible.

Here are the basic points:

  1. Cars will be tested on the same day, under the same conditions.
  2. Cars should be stock (disclaimer: CG installed rear seats in his GT2).
  3. Both cars will carry data loggers and video cameras.
  4. All results will be made available on our site.
  5. We are based in NYC so testing would be at one of our local tracks, to be determined.

Here are the safety/insurance points:

  • A fair test requires the same driver in both cars, ideally a number of different drivers in both cars and we understand that this might be a sticking point. While we welcome support from track insurance companies that may want to be involved in this project and allow for a more complete test, CG is willing to guarantee the GT-R owner MSRP as a contingency. CG would drive and the GT-R owner would ride in both cars to even things out. If someone can guarantee for the GT2 then we can have a further data point.
  • There has been some controversy about the GT-R warranty, we would run the GT-R in whatever mode the owner is satisfied will not void Nissan's coverage.

Again, in the interest of full disclosure, while CG can play the part of the Stig's latin cousin very well, he is in fact the head of a successful company and happily married with 3 kids....you would not be putting your life in the hands of a Red Bull fueled Gran Turismo 5 champion.

We would like to thank Chris H for his help formulating this idea and look forward to getting to the bottom of this, we truly are curious and want to find out what we can.

Join us, we'll gather data, feed it into the nearly infallible Axis STFU3000 Supercomputer and let the chip fall where they may!

Feel free to leave comments with your suggestions and if you are that GT-R owner CONTACT US asap!

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  1. Finally - some one stepping up and doing something about the issue in an intelligent manner.

  2. Why the GT2 over the 911 TT ? $192k car vs $70k car. Rear wheel drive vs all wheel drive ?


    Lets make it ZR1 vs GT2 instead....

  3. Well its a GT2 because that is what we have. Also the TT has evolved into a GT cruiser and not the track weapon it used to be. a GT3 with a lot less power is already faster than a TT around almost any track.
    Now track duties by Porsche are meant to be done in a GT2 or GT3.... and this is a track challenge in response to Nissan's claim of the GTR being faster than the GT2 at the NRing (7:29 vs 7:32 respectively).

    ZR1 vs. GT2 is pointless. No need to run that test. The ZR1 will always win if it doesn't break (not implying that it will... but it could :^) ). GT2 vs. Corvette is a subjective test of preference; driving experience, daily driver practicality (comfort and convenience too?) and reliability vs. just plain fast due to power overload (IMO). The Vette value proposition has always been: disregard the quality, technology, interior finish, this is just the fastest thing every one of your dollars can buy.

    If it always were down price and value we wouldn't have any Ferraris, aston, Bentleys, etc. on the road...
    For example the GT3 is better value than the GT2 (they can be specced identically for daily driving comfort), but the GT2 will always be faster and scarier and some are willing to pay for that.

  4. Disregard for quality and technology at Corvette, CG?

    Yeah, those FXX carbon-ceramic brakes and Michelin PS2s are reallllly ancient technology and bottom-of-the-pack quality. Should I mention the industry-best stability system with variable settings?


  5. Why FXX brakes? wasn't Porsche the first to actually use carbon brakes on a street car?

  6. Precisely, carbon brakes and PS2s are not what I will call Chevy-developed technology.
    It's all relatively; sure the Vette looks space-shuttle high-tech compared to the rest of the GM 1940's pickup breed that comprises most of their product range (Strong reason why the Company is on the verge of extinction... just like Dinosaurs did).... but that's another topic

    My point is what each Sportscar "value" proposition is:

    Ferrari: As close as you can get to driving and sensorial nirvana irrespective of price through the use of quasi-F1 technology

    Porsche: Driver involvement perfection and performance (not necessarily the fastest) with real racecar heritage and everyday usability for the masses (relatively speaking truly affordable)

    Vette: Best value in $ per bhp/weight category (i.e. Plain fast).

    GTR : ? Technology for performance's sake? (i.e. Anyone can drive like Schumi)

  7. Yes, but these are in many ways subjective judgements. I want DATA!!!
    This is the point of this test, we need to clear our minds, keep them open and see what happens for ourselves

  8. Pilot Sport Cups don't come in the right sizes in a 20 for a GT-R. Only a 245 and a 315 is available. A GT-R is a 255 on the front and 285 on the rear stock.

    I would love to see the GT-R on the Pilot Sport Cup, its a serious tire. More serious than the Dunlop summer.

  9. hell' I'd love to see both on Hoosiers but the point of this would be to see how they run as they came from the factory....

  10. WOW, do it GTR guys ... DO IT!

  11. CG: Do some research on magna-ride shocks... you know, the ones GM developed that found their way to the Ferrari F599 and Audi R8, let alone the ZR1.


  12. MagneRide? Trademark name from Delphi?
    Delphi the company that has been independent for 10 years (i.e. not GM) and went into Chapter 11....?

    Magneto rheological dampers and the technology were not invented by Delphi (and obviously not GM). Almost every manufacturer has its own version of it (BMW too in case you didn't know). Ferrari just happened to purchase the system from Delphi as so did GM for the Vette. (Just like brakes from Brembo and trannys by Borg Wagner)

  13. Wrong. Delphi still has tech-sharing agreements and other research partnerships with GM. Nobody else has Mag-rheo shocks or anything like them.


  14. Car and Driver just did the Lightning Lap test at VIR. I can't believe the results. The GTR is only 1 sec slower than a 430 Scuderia. Truly amazing!

    It has to have a LOT more power than what's claimed (Is 480hp the new Japanese market 276bhp of old times?). I can understand drivability and confidence inspiring playing a big factor, specially against a 911, but from what I understand the 430 Scud with so little weight and the trick diff is also relatively superfast friendly to drive...

  15. Freep and CG:


    Ferrari DOES use Delphi's system.

    CG, you may be right that Delphi didn't INVENT it, but they are the only ones successfully IMPLEMENTING it on street cars. MillenWorks and possibly others are implementing it in military and other markets, but not on the road. Additionally, this tech has been in development for a long, long time. That development did begin when Delphi was still under GM, and GM still has a stake in Delphi.

  16. Thanks, dseybert.

    And AC, I could focus fine if CG would stop blindly bashing the ZR1.

    Why don't you make another good ole Hamilton joke to distract us...


  17. Godzilla being shy? where are the GT-R owners?

  18. I think even Martha Stewart will run her own GTR test too.
    Yesterday at Monticello Playboy magazine was doing their own test of GTR vs ZR1.

    AC, please post the picture of the ZR1 so I don't need to keep replying to the Freep's patriotic defense of Detroit engineering and design..

  19. Where Are the GTR peeps?


  20. The GT-R peeps are a little shy still I guess :o)


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