Finally the number one complaint about BMW from hardcore enthusiasts (after weight that is) is being addressed. Brembo has announced that it will supply BMW with both disks and complete braking systems. Brembo has recently also acquired major manufacturing facilites in the US and Mexico when it bought Hayes Lemmerz's brake division.If we can presume the 6 piston front caliper on the 135 is in fact a Brembo piece, why the e92 M3 will retain the traditional BMW single piston is a bit of a mystery. However future models will be equipped with calipers capable of sustainable stopping power.
UPDATE: Ben, one of our readers kindly linked a photo (via 1addicts.com)of a 135i caliper where the Brembo logo is clearly visible.
Source?
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135 Caliper:
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The source was Reuters, however there is no official statement on the Brembo corporate site. As per Ben's picture above it seem at least one 135 has Brembo sourced calipers...so it seems like the pieces of the puzzle fit.
ReplyDeleteYou are not going to see much negative reaction to this move.
I'll be negative. I don't think there's anything magic about Brembo braking systems.
ReplyDeleteThe 4-pot Brembos on my Subaru STI race car SUCKED SUCKED SUCKED. I'll take the stock brakes on the 2.8L Z3 any day. They were expensive, they ran very very hot, they didn't last, and worst of all, they didn't even feel good.
They were probably just undersized for the car's weight and speed. But the point is that just doing a deal with Brembo does not mean that braking performance will improve.
I'm frankly quite happy with the stock calipers and rotors on the Z3.
Fair point.... another marketing move then?
ReplyDeletethen again...the new "lightweight" 135 will weigh more than 3300 ... so I don't think the old style would work out especially well on track.
ReplyDeleteI also wonder if this isn't more of a marketing move. All of a sudden you have everything down to Acuras (TLS?) with Big bling Brembo calipers. It seems like every major competitor has a BB (though I believe Infinity pulled them from the G35 due to complaints) so I think BMW just wanted to join the club with something pretty to fill the wheels.
ReplyDeleteWe'll see how it ends up - I really suspect BMW is focused on the mass market; "Brembo brakes" is just another feature that looks good on the brochure for the average Motor Trend reader who'll never see a trackday.
Thanks Josh, for being the only other level-headed individual on this subject!
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Hmmm... care to expand on that Freep?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Josh that just because it says "Brembo" on it doesn't make it a great braking system. However, it seems like a 6-pot setup on the new 1 series is a definite step in the right direction. Maybe soon we'll be seeing monoblock 8-pot calipers on the M series? I've felt that BMW has been behind the curve with their braking technology for a while, and I'm excited to see them catching up!
ReplyDeleteFYI, Ben: More pistons does not equal more "braking technology."
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Moving to a multi-piston caliper setup (as opposed to a single piston caliper) constitutes more technology, since the only way to increase clamping force applied to the rotor (force = hydraulic line pressure multiplied by piston area in inches) is to either increase line pressure or to increase the piston area of the caliper. Adding more pistons within the existing caliper dimensions, and therefore using existing hardware more efficiently, is the only way to maintain reasonably sized calipers and also increase clamping force.
ReplyDeleteThe Z3 brakes are fine for the 2800lbs (or less?) of the 2.8 Z3. The problem is hat BMW practically kept using those same brakes in their newer "small" 3500lbs+ cars.
ReplyDeleteAll not Brembos are created equal, same way there are crappy budget BMWs (318ti?) and great ones (M3). The 430 Scuderia uses carbon ceramic brembo brakes and calipers, and I doubt those are bad....
Size is what matters the most on brakes, specially given the hefty mass of modern M cars, and chances are that new BMW brakes wearing a Brembo badge will wear rim filling rotors to match...
That can only be better, than the current "great" single piston BMW setup on teeny weeny rotors..
Actually, you are not quite correct Ben, everything else being equal the force exerted by a single large piston or multiple smaller pistons will be exactly the same. What would change is the distribution of the pressure onto the pad. One of the issues with the BMW floating design is that there is a deflection and uneven wear on the pads. the other issue is just plain old thermal dispersion as CG notes above.
ReplyDeleteNow having said that none of this makes a bit of difference for normal street driving... or does it? BMW equipped their press fleet with higher performance pads for the M3 launch.
Right...my point is that more smaller pistons uses the caliper's space more efficiently, therefore you can have more surface area with multiple pistons as opposed to a single piston , assuming the caliper size stays the same. Good discussion :)
ReplyDeleteCG, you are the first I've ever heard to call BMW's rotors "tiny." That's ridiculous... as BMW has had one of the larger rotors (by curb weight) on the street for years.
ReplyDeleteAnd on the subject of single-piston calipers... they seem to work quite well on AC's 3100-lb MCoupe, don't they? And plenty of E36 M3 drivers have used them successfully on the track for years.
FYI: even 6-piston calipers can experience uneven pad wear, and I've seen it happen.