August 24, 2014

Hamilton and Rosberg crash: who's at fault?

Hamilton and Rosberg touch at Les Combes (via BBC Sport)

Let's have a look at that Hamilton-Rosberg incident for a sec.

Some segments of the motoring media have come down hard on the side of Hamilton while some more sensible, less partisan voices saw it for what it was, two top dogs trying to see who can pee higher on the pole.

A racing incident which is the direct result of Mercedes' inability to control the relations between their drivers.   It's possible Mercedes expected Hamilton to walk all over Rosberg at the beginning of the year but that didn't quite happen and there's no doubt this has caused Lewis to get upset.   Also, coming into Spa, the baggage of Lewis going against team orders which the team spent the summer break minimizing.    

In fact , things have been extra tense since Monaco.  Lewis is kind of playing the victim now but he's the one who first played dirty, saying he deserved to win because Rosberg came from privilege and he instead had to "sleep on the couch".  
Even the most rabid fanboys must admit that was pretty shitty.

Hamilton then doubled down suggesting Rosberg copied his setups,   ironic given Lewis' Mclaren year as Alonso's teammate.   At some point on that Monaco week end Rosberg must have decided that he had to do whatever if he was going to win so, if you believe the conspiracies, he did.   Rosberg was probably also taken aback the team did not reprimand Hamilton after Hungary, Rosberg himself had given up when asked by the team in the past and has a long memory.

All of this as a background to what happened today, there was much more at stake than just a position: Neither was going to yield.

So, coming out of Radillon, Hamilton was less than perfect and Rosberg was able to get a tow.  As they turn in for Les Combes, Rosberg's nose is halfway up Hamilton's car.  It's not as if he's entitled to anything but for sure Hamilton knew precisely where he was.

In the second part of the corner, Hamilton does what is normal to try and do: he closes the gap and they touch.  He did not turn in any later  for the left and naturally did not give up.  Like any racer would do.

Now from the onboard.  nobody can say  Lewis did not know exactly where Rosberg was.   At this point, if Hamilton gives him any room, Rosberg does have a chance on the next left, so, as any racer would, he goes for it.

Now the middle part of the corner:  Anthony Davidson used Rosberg's correction as evidence he turned into Hamilton.  Ridiculous,  it's clear Rosberg was just catching oversteer and when he came back Hamilton had already cut across the track and the gap was gone.  You can argue Rosberg made an error and lost the rear but even if he didn't and Hamilton kept the same line, they would have touched.  
Both went for the same piece of road,  neither yielded,  classic racing incident.

Why it would get to that point is up to Mercedes management to sort out,  for sure though, if you tell two racers fighting for championship and image that they are free to race, they will.


  1. Rubbish analysis full of bias and vapid assumptions. Good to see consistency on AOO.

  2. Rosberg is just catching oversteer? Doesn't seem that clear to me, the video with sound would help.
    Hamilton knows that Rosberg is there, but he doesn't know exactly where. Rosberg on the other hand could see Hamilton, and instead of falling behind him, chose to turn, miscalculated, and broke his wing.

  3. Agreed! Goofy thing about this website is, the guy who runs it asks for peoples opinion, and when they give it...the muttonhead twerp deletes it. Its an unfortunate shame and a sham.

  4. I approved your comment so you you would bot whine, but how about you make a counter argument so there can be discussion....or is that not allowed when it comes to anything Hammy related?

  5. I have never deleted a comment, ever. Some I did not approve because they were overtly racist...towards Hamilton, and that's not acceptable

  6. Hamilton on Rosberg: “He basically said he did it on purpose…” LOL. isn't Lewis then also admitting he "Basically did it on purpose"?

  7. I think that it's a racing incident that Nico could have elegantly gotten out of.

  8. Anyone who has gone wheel to wheel on a race track knows that was a racing incident. Glad you took hundreds of words of rumors and innuendo to arrive at that conclusion. Now where is your detailed analysis as to why Alonso was only penalized 5 seconds when Ferrari nearly killed their mechanics putting them on a hot racetrack? Downright shameful given the recent Tony Stewart incident.

  9. My opinion is that it was a racing incident and that Hamilton may not have seen him there and Rosberg could have lifted a bit if he saw the gap closing. I think AMG Patronas needs to get a better handle on these two before they destroy their championship hopes. It does make for some great tv though

  10. AC, we know where you stand from this comment alone:
    "more SENSIBLE, less PARTISAN voices saw it for what it was..."

    So the ones that agree with you are sensible? Got it!

    Could you at least try to conceal your bias? You're coming across as a Rosberg apologist. Perhaps you're not a Rosberg fan but you do wish for him to win the title and would root for anyone other than Hamilton. Do you not realize people can read stuff you've written in the past? We know where you stand AC.

    As to the collision, the easiest thing to do is call a racing incident when you want to excuse the guilty party. Because then you don't have to place blame and you don't have to deal with nuances.

    Rosberg deliberately created a situation that would result in a collision. Why? Because he is 11 points ahead and any contact between the two would hurt Hamilton more. Rosberg's move was a hail marry on lap 2! Rosberg threw out all the rules on racing etiquette with a title contender, teammate, and opening laps risk. He's at fault 100%. That move was never going to happen. Strangely enough Rosberg still has the "do no wrong" image and the stewards didn't even bother with an investigation. What a lucky bloke that Rosberg!

  11. The only way to pass at that corner is to have the pass done before or AT corner entry. Everyone and their mother knows that! Its an immediate left-right section. Trying to go into that corner side by side is asking for collision. Going into the corner Nico was behind and had zero chance of completing the pass from the outside. Unless of course by insisting on Hamilton giving room, you're actually asking for Hamilton to yield position to a guy that is behind him and on the outside. Hamilton's car is on the edge of the inside curb at corner entry. Is it his responsibility to run ON the curb or into the grass so Rosberg has room to complete his hail marry attempt? Is it his responsibility to wide right into the "marbles" or dirty side of the track so Rosberg can complete his hail marry attempt on the inside? What you're asking for is not room. Because there is none to give. What you're asking for is Hamilton to yield position to Rosberg.

  12. Sorry meant *right-left section.

  13. Ok but then with that logic Alonso, for example, should not have tried a similar move at Rivage. if the move seems to you boneheaded now, I would argue you don't pass Hamilton unless you do do something pretty assertive, so II fully understand Rosberg. Also, so much of racing is the opening laps, if you get any kind of opening you go.

  14. I think the idea Rosberg deliberately hit Hamilton is laughable and the fact so much of the UK press is jumping on Hamilton's clever pr about what Rosberg supposedly said, well, where's your outrage there? None right? So, I'm partisan? C'mon now

  15. Racing incident.
    Anyone else and we wouldn't even be talking about it.
    But not when it's Dramarama.
    Hell, the stewards didn't even blink (for a change).
    I'm so sick of the Ham and Brittany show already.
    Whining and blaming and being hypocrits and media bitches.
    The good racing is happening all around them.

    Need more Fins and Aussies in the sport

  16. Ricciardo gets it on double points! :)

  17. 1. I said he deliberately created a situation that would result in a collision. Which is true. Not a single pass was completely from the outside at that corner. Racing drivers know where passing is possible and Rosberg knew he wasn't going to pass there without contact. Yet he choose to hover on the outside and made zero attempt to back off. That is whats meant by deliberate. Even in touring cars I can't imagine a car trying to overtake from the outside on that right-left complex without driving straight into the car on the inside line. I can't for the life of me find a reason why you wrote an entire article with videos trying to defend a clearly guilty Rosberg. Only reason I can think of is bias and the dislike of Hamilton preventing you from seeing things clearly. You could of wrote an article about why Rosberg's attempt was "unacceptable"....but you didn't did you? Instead you rose to his defense. I guess 95% of us are wrong. You chose to defend the indefensible. I wonder why?

    2. Why should there be outrage because Hamilton claims Rosberg did it on purpose "to prove a point." Again this is a result of your tendency and urge to hammer Hamilton at every possible opportunity. I, like the majority of F1 fans, are more interested in the truth. I'm waiting to hear Rosberg respond to the allegations, which so far he hasn't even though he can. And I also want to hear from the team and possible reporters that maybe have witnessed the discussion. Expecting outrage says a lot about you. And its not only UK press that's talking about the claims.

    And yes, you are partisan. Just own up to it. We all have our sides.

  18. Toto was quoted as saying: "Nico felt he needed to hold his line. He needed to make a point and for Lewis it was clearly not him who needed to be aware of Nico."

    Holding your line because the car ahead of you that actually has the racing line should give way, a notion counter to any motor racing tenet I have ever read, sure sounds deliberate.

  19. i agree its racing incident, and hamilton fans will not see it anyother way, and they accuse others are being biased Lol. Hamilton had space on his right, he chose to clip rosberg's wing and risk it. instead of and suffered, granted its little too early in the race. But saying its completely rorberg's fault is BS, i think hamilton is nothing but is being crybaby all the time, if you look at all the races without bias, hamilton would come across as just another whiny crybaby, always complaining, this time twisting things "he admitted he did it on purpose" etc, which is internal team discussions. At least all this while rosberg has been professional, saying we will discuss internally so on. Sad part is all these fan's brains stop working when something bad happens to their fav.

  20. C'mon now AC! Apples and're reaching! Alonso's move on Perez was brilliant and nothing like Rosbergs. Alonso opened the corner so he can get on the power harder than Perez. At no point did his move hinge on squeezing Perez or expecting Perez to yield room that was rightfully his. Kimi tried the same move on Mag, but Mag was wise enough to cover the inside line. Plus Kimi's drive out of the corner wasn't as fast as Alonso. They were running different lines. Alonso's line allowed him to get on the power hard and when they got to the next corner, Alonso was now on the inside line for the left hander and was eeking ahead of Perez. Perez who was now on the outside played it sensibly and fell behind. Which is what Rosberg should have done, but instead forced the issue.

    The other thing you have to take into account is that complex of corners was different between Ros and Ham vs Alon and Perez. Rosberg was trying to pass from the outside going into what was basically a chicane. Nevermind he was almost a car length behind Ham. The corners where Alonso passed Perez are spaced further apart. So, Alonso can safely stay on the outside and get a better drive to next corner and pass if Perez does not wise up to Alonso's move. Which is what happened.

    In reply to your last sentence: There was NO opening! and there was no space to be given! Unless you think Hamilton could have made his car vanish.

  21. Wow! You sound so rational and well informed...I hope you catch my sarcasm. This was particularly rich: "he chose to clip rosberg's wing" LOL! Just unbelievable.

  22. Wouldn't that be about the best possible thing that could happen.
    That's what I'm hoping for anyway (even though he probably wouldn't want to win it that way given earlier comments), that & @ least 1 win for Kimi

  23. This is why American motorsports don't carry over well to other nations. The boys have at it mentality, rubbing is racing mentality, and unnecessary full course yellows to spice up the show just arn't appealing to the rest of the world. You probably think I'm singling out NASCAR, but this approach is very true for Indycar and sports car racing in the States. You see, to the rest of the world, motorsports isn't about carnage.

    I like Ricciardo but we don't need anymore Webbers. I'm glad he's off to endurance racing. He got served by Vettel. But fans loved him...I'm convinced its something to do with those wicked jaws and the ability to grow facial hair at will. Wicked jaw+facial hair= man's man for a lot of fans.

  24. Alonso only pulled that move off successfully once or twice and also backed off a couple times as well when he knew he wouldn't make it. See the battle with Mag. Had Alonso drove like Rosberg he would have had he same exact result but he's a better racing driver and knew when to pull out. Alonso's incident with Vettel at the end I think was born more out of frustration than a bad driving move.

    Rosberg took the risk and knew at worst he'd get a broken wing. While also at worst Hamilton would get a cut tire and therefore remove himself from contention. To Rosberg it was worth the risk. Just like botching his final qualifying attempt in Monaco. He's turning into quite the sneaky teammate. Not sure many will want him as a teammate in the future if he keeps this up.

  25. Lewis is unable to escape these situations. It is always some other driver's fault and victimhood has defined his career.

  26. I think it's a racing incident, that could have been avoided by nico... And he choose not to do so.. And that makes it less a racing incident, also if ham would been a bit more aggressive and go wide sooner nico wouldn't had a choice and yield, but he gave him that split second to decide

  27. if you are delusional enough to believe what ever hammy cries about, even after toto refutes it, well then go on. There is no sarcasm in here LOL. Other way to put what i said before, hamilton had a choice to leave room or take racing line (which would clips rosberg's FW), he chose latter.

  28. Found this comment on other site and i think it sums up the whole thing pretty well
    ".Mature drivers back out to avoid an accident. They believe in fighting tough AND fair. Nico is one such racer as has been evident with his past racing especially in Bahrain this season.
    This time he decided he has had enough and proved a point that “if you want an accident, I am done backing out, you are going to get an accident”.
    Clearly Lewis doesn’t understand this complicated thought process and instead plays the victim like some spoiled child (which is very consistent and tragically so for such a gifted driver).
    It is also understandable why they used to be friends but not are anymore, to my knowledge. One of them grew up..'

  29. I did not put it right, what I intended to say was making passes where everyone says it can't be done

  30. Really wish Kimi/Ferrari were in better form this year. It was refreshing last year to hear him on the radio, but this year I haven't heard much of a peep.

  31. Not sure what any of that has to do with my comment, but I agree completely with what an embarrassing spectacle American racing is, full course yellows for a simple spin for artificial effect, sponsor ass kissing every time a camera is near and a question asked, Nascar does not even deserve mention. I like this site because it covers F1, WRC, Moto GP, WEC, and grassroots sportcar racing while avoiding the bias you get from some of the others, especially the British sites. I like drivers that put their heads down and do the job with out a lot of whining, blaming and/or excuses, or going on Twitter with pictures of team setup to explain some short coming, or drumming up tension within the team through offhand press comments and thinly veiled conspiracy accusations, or acting like saints when several times in the past they have done similar or worse things and felt justified. Hamilton has a definite pattern here, Massa, Vettel, Alonso also come to mind, though the latter has gained much deserved respect over the last few years. Some fans tend to gravitate toward personality types that they can relate to I guess. Not sure what jaw lines and facial hair have to do with it.
    Also, I'm not a Rosberg fan either, he is clearly lacking in race craft when he is behind another car and needs to get around, tending to loose a lot of time here and there, he needs the fastest car and he needs to be in front with an engineer on the radio to guide him through. But even Toto, though upset, is admitting that the "on purpose" comment is out of context, just more media play.
    If it happened the other way around, Rosberg would likely have been a little more level headed afterwards, but maybe crying in the trailer, and Ham would have shrugged it all off with a smile because he probably would have also been in the lead at the end.

  32. I think is a racing accident, no one yield, Nico was on the limit and I think even if HAM leave a little open Nico would not be able to pass it because Nico was fighting the car and without traction he would not have option... the next turn (10) Bruxelles was to right and HAM would had the line.

  33. ''I said he deliberately created a situation that would result in a collision'' that is double talk for he did it on purpose

  34. Let me fix that for you:

    "I would like to add... I don't like Lewis Hamilton."

    Now everything you wrote makes perfect sense.

  35. So in short you don't like Lewis Hamilton. Fair enough, no one expects you to like him. But don't come here with half truths and self serving lies and try to pass them off as legitimate reasons why you don't like him. You're just another Hamilton hater that's been coned by Rosberg. You think Rosberg is level headed? You think wrecking your teammmate and cost your team valuable points on lap 1 is level headed?

    Just listen to yourself. Listen to how quickly you're quick to jump to Rosberg's defense yet quick to smear Lewis. You're a hater, own it!

  36. Well, my work here is done. These haters have to hear a dissenting voice otherwise they think they are correct and everyone agrees with their biased opinions. See y'all in Monza. Looking forward to seeing how AC will try to spin an incident should something happen at the next GP.

  37. this goes for your comment and most of the others on here, Its not all about Ham, Ham got the worst of this but Nico cost the team a win. And maybe more than that, a 1 2 finish. its not about the drivers for some, as a fan of Merc team Nico is at fault.

  38. That was nothing more than a 'racing incident', but it (and countless other similar tyre-slashing incidents) wouldn't have occurred if the cars didn't have those elephantine front wings with carbon-fibre edges.

    It's yet another reason to rid motorsport of all aerofoils.

  39. I know it's been said a million times before but it's the Prost / Senna conundrum in the year 2014... Team A has unbeatable car with two equal-ish drivers (A and B); Driver B usually does what Team A says / plays by the book, Driver A is more aggressive and ignores conditions of Team A sometimes; Driver B feels Driver A acts unfairly and races recklessly sometimes; Driver B wants to make a point -> BANG

  40. I agree, but knowing Kimi if he is saying anything it is probably not exactly safe for TV...

  41. At least now the cat is out of the bag, Rosberg made a point and will not be Mr. Nice Guy, smile and move on anymore. It will be interesting to see how Hamilton will adapt his driving towards him after what happened. Most likely he will try to make his point too and kick him out at some point, like an angry kid in a sand pit.
    It makes me feel sad for Hamilton, he should man up and keep his visor down instead of constant whining and asking for more bubble wrap. Rosberg played an interesting move and could enjoy a psychological edge.

  42. Actually I liked HAM at the beginning of the year and not ROS.

    But HAM is showing the same attitude as past years oh and BTW I don't like drivers that bitch too much instead of drive...
    I think this is F1 fault and not drivers.

  43. Thanks for your reply, as an AMG-Mercedes fan I agree with you up to the point that Mercedes has been overwhelmingly dominant this year. The whole season has been a race for the best of the rest.

    I actually wanted to see Lewis break Vettle's win streak record.
    But after Monaco and Canada Lewis' inconsistency and yes choking crushed those hopes.

    This is after I swore to never forgive his ballsweat handshake with Sebastian after qualifying last year.

  44. To even think that an F1 driver leading the championship would risk his
    front wing on purpose isn't really thinkable for me, did he mean to tap Hamilton’s
    rear I don't think so at all - was it his intention to slot in
    behind without breaking his wing or giving Hamilton a punture...yes I think so.

    I’d say more end plates have fallen off hitting rear tyres than rear tyre punctures
    from end plates so to think he can give him a puncture or whatever on purpose
    and come out of it on top is ridiculous.

    I’m appalled at the interviews Toto and lauda gave sky, the body language coupled with the words chosen was one of someone not in control I think and given
    the incidents this year it’s clear to me now that the merc team are very pro Hamilton
    and I feel a little sorry for rosberg. I mean unless the cars are going to
    break down at all the final gp's it’s pretty cut and dry that the merc team
    will have the constructors and one of their drivers will win the title. Maybe
    just not the one they'd prefer.

    Whilst I think Hamilton is an exceptional driver IMO Hamilton moans all the
    time about something or another and I have really gone off the guy because of
    this while I think rosberg is holding himself very well indeed, a far more professional gentleman, well he would be i suppose as he wasn't brought up on the sofa.

    No one mentions the bumper cars Hamilton was playing at the German gp, but
    that was ok though because he came through the field. What a star, no overzealous
    moves there.

    Merc management complain about it being on the second lap but the first 3
    laps of a gp are some of the most exciting aren’t they?

    Racing incident for me and I think the merc team and Hamilton look very bad
    on this occasion and could have held themselves alot better and rosberg can stand tall I think.

    Although British I was neither a Hamilton nor a rosberg fan at the start of
    the season but as they are fighting it out I would like rosberg to pip Hamilton to the title, he's driving well and holds himself well.

  45. This was lap 2, not 42. These were teammates who, if they worked together, should have gapped the field over the next 30 laps and created a safe buffer within which they could then do battle amongst themselves. Within that initial period they could take advantage of each others mistakes and use pit strategy to gain an advantage. Rosberg taking unnecessary risks at that juncture was poor strategically and selfish as a team member.

  46. I"ll get behind that. There's much more of a mental battle to this than one guy clipping another.

    Also, there is so much butthurt in here. haha

  47. I believe this is not between ROS and HAM. Is between ROS and Wolff and Lauda.
    In Wolff position, I will call the reserve driver and sit Rosberg for a race, and make him attend the press at the racetrack. Be an asshole, and I can be a bigger one.

  48. Rosberg could have easily avoided contact. Anyone who thinks he couldn't is not very bright.

  49. If Rosberg did it on purpose (puncture Hamilton's tyre while only slightly damaging his own wing), then give Rosberg the drivers championship because he is the greatest driver in the world. If roles were reversed, I really doubt the press and fans would be in such a tizzy.
    Speaking of oversteer, I doubt the crash would have ever happened if Rosberg's rear end didn't break lose a second before.

  50. I'll never forget Kimi's pass on Schumi there, it was perfect. But then Michael retired with transmission troubles on the same lap. But it was still sweeeeeet.

  51. Same can be said for Lewis. He said he was 'ahead' and he was, but he also could have taken a slightly later apex and kept momentum while Nico on the inside would have been forced to back off to avoid overrunning the corner into Lewis.

    Surviving a racing incident is not all about entitlement because you have a half a length on your teammate.

  52. You illustrate why AMG Mercedes leadership is lacking. Lauda and Wolff should have been cracking down on these shenanigans months ago.

  53. Lewis is a donkey, hi drives always as alone in the track

  54. hamilton, knowing where rosberg was, could have just as easily did the same as he had plenty of track to the right...

  55. Sorry guys but the evidence speaks for its self.....he clearly makes sure he doesnt hit wheel to wheel, but once clear...its hard right....and sorry, if you think Nico cant steer clear of the tire after managing his close proximity gap for the previous 30 yards...your dreamin ...he's a great driver, and can miss or hit what he wants...

  56. I guess you have never experienced oversteer driving hard into in a corner before?


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