Here's one that will keep the internet flame wars going between fanboys of both sides.
Let's examine that GT3 RS lap time for a second because it's very impressive. Essentially the same lap time as the much more powerful GT2 (7:32.2) and 10 seconds faster than the Mk1 RS, it is even more impressive especially when you consider that, according to the report on EVO, Porsche engineers reckon that a traffic free "theoretical best lap" lap would be closer to 7:30. That's one hell of a mid life refresh for any car.
Now about the flame war, there really should is no cause for one. Let's put aside that nobody outside of NIssan has been able to duplicate the feats of the Nissan drivers (legendary magazine tester Horst Von Saurma "only"managed a 7:38), EVO makes a very obvious and valid point, so what if you can only do it for one lap?
Absolutely the GT-R is fast but, at 10/10ths how long can the GT-R hold up? We asked people with experience running the GT-R, specifically at the Nürburgring, about this issue and what he got back is not pretty: even when not driven at full Toshio Suzuki pace, tires are only good for one lap then they go away. Running costs including consumables and service work out to an epic 200 Euro($300) per lap!!. Nissan recommends a full service after every second track day, you can see how that could get tedious after a while.
But what would be worse would be having to stop after every lap and cool everything down while the buddies you just taunted with your best "ha, ha, I only paid half of what you paid" speech go right on through for more fun!
Discuss!
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Impressive laptime indeed. just shows how much better the grip must be in the new RS with its QuasiCup wider geometry. Also the shorter gearing has a lot to do with the time savings. The normal ratios in the GT3 are too looooong for the NRing; it really felt sluggish. The shorter ratios and 8500rpms make the torque at wheels of the RS be very close to the GT2's (HP is what really matters : Torque x RPM; absolute torque is irrelevant).
ReplyDeleteAs for the GTR; I still think it is an impressive car for the $, but it can't really be considered usable as a track day car as a GT3, so it doesn't work for me (most importantly b/c real drivers dont drive AWD on paved surfaces... there I said it!!!)
Tell Sebastien Loeb that :o)....
ReplyDeleteThe new GT3 is only 7 seconds slower over the lap, that's pretty impressive as well.
You pay twice when you buy for price!
ReplyDeleteI find somehow funny when people compare prices of the Nissan GTR, ZR-1, Viper ACR to a Porsche GT3/GT3RS/GT2 to make a point. Porsches are expensive cars, that's nothing new. Indeed, it is the Chevy/Chrysler/Nissan cars that are getting more expensive.
ReplyDeleteA 7:30 lap is very impressive compared to what Walter Rohl ran with the 2008 GT2 (7:32). I think the time difference comes mainly from Aero, with the new bigger and higher wing. A wing can make a huge difference over 7 minutes. Horst Von Saurma ran a 7:40 with the 2010 GT3 using the same 3.8 engine, with 15Hp down, stock long gears and no big wing (although better aero than a 2008 GT2).
I think the 7:30 comes from wider front tires, the wing (mainly), and the 3.88 ring and pinion gear instead of the 3.44 in all the 997.
The ZR-1, Viper ACR and GTR are heavy, the new R8 V10 and Gallardo 550-2 are heavy. The only lighter car than the new RS is the 430 Scuderia, and I doubt the Scuderia can keep up with the RS (there is close to 10 secs gap at the Ring between the Scuderia and '10 GT3 RS).
Only the ACR has been focused on Aero and tires. check how slow is the standard Viper RT-10 compared to the ACR at Willow Springs (tested by Road and Track in Evil Twins), 3 seconds on a 1:30 lap, after 5 laps (7:30) this gap will be around 15 seconds.
Put some fat tires, a GT3 Cup wing in a 997 GT2 and the GT2 could drop around 1 second per minute, a potential 7:25 before getting more power from the engine from bolt-on parts.
The Nissan GTR Nurburgring lap time is a scam. The Viper ACR is real.
Agree with Rad. The GT2 Rules!! :^)
ReplyDeletekidding aside, why is (or you think? ) the Scuderia slower than the RS?
I thought it would be faster..? Less, weight, more HP, better gearing...
Isn't the GT2 the same chassis as the gt3rs but with 85 more hp? Just buy an RS wing and stick it on there :)
ReplyDeletefastestlaps.com has the Scuderia at 7:39
ReplyDeleteMaybe the lap is possible but nobody has achieved it yet?
AC, the new RS MK2 has new/unique wider front suspension (derivative of RSR racer and in the 2010 CupCar).
ReplyDeleteThe RS Mk2 has the same rear suspension as the GT2.
The Wing will do a good share for the GT2, but the RS front end is better.
The new 2010 CupCar will be something else too (miniRSR)
@ f1 outsider: It sounds so much nicer in French:
ReplyDelete"Il faut être riche pour acheter bon marché".
But just as well true.
A 7:30 lap is indeed impressive, but how many races last for only 1 lap? How many GT-R's ran in the last 24 @ the ring?
ReplyDeleteIt would be interesting to see what the EVOMS/Sharkwerks 3.9L GT3 would run, with 500hp n/a
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ReplyDeleteAdditional thoughts:
ReplyDeleteThe Ferrari's downforce package is primarily of the underbody variety. The Ring's crowned and unsmooth surface perhaps provide the 430S with a disadvantage over the well-winged 997RS, which is perhaps better able to utilize its aero package.
Also, Porsche lives nearby and has used the Ring as a proving ground for many years, thereby giving them a home-field advantage of sorts.
Any response to those ideas?
The Scuderia produces front lift at high speeds, it needs more downforce in the front, and even more in the rear. The 2007 GT3 RS is more planted at high speed turns than the Scuderia. The 2010 GT3 RS has even better aero than the 2007 GT3 RS.
ReplyDeleteI think that if fitting the front bumper from a 2010 GT3 RS and rear deck lid and wing is a possibility for the 997 GT2, the GT2 would improve a lot (closer to the Viper ACR, ZR1 lap times at the ring).
The Scuderia needs a different front bumper (like the one used in the FIA GT3 car) and a rear wing (FIA GT3 as well), that would help reduce lap times a lot.
Stock vs. Stock, I think the 2010 RS can produce quicker lap times than the Scuderia, despite of the Scuderia having more power, less weight and better gear ratios. The Scuderia tires and wheels are a joke, and the suspension is too soft. However, if you tune the Scuderia (suspension, wider wheels/tires, aero), I doubt that a 2010 RS could keep up.
Noble M600 will go quicker.
ReplyDeletePlease don't compare naturally aspirated cars with forced induction ones! The GTR is an exception of a forced induction car with no turbo lag, but this is not the case with the GT2! Part of the spectacular time of the new GT3 RS is that its speed can be adjusted more easily, thus it can be driven faster around corners than the GT2! GT2 is for autobans while GT3 is for mountain roads and for the real enthusiast!!! On the other hand the GTR is for drag racing and cruising, not for sustained hard use, ...it won't last for long!
ReplyDelete