February 23, 2008

What's in the Water?

Without getting the specifics of the debate, if there is one, does it seem right to you that the GT3 be tested against a 4WD car, on a 2°C (35°F) day with Pilot Sport Cups and traction control ON?

While I have no doubt the Nissan GT-R will be the stop light GP king every time, this is now the second comparo we have seen between the GT-R and Porsches where all is not on the up and up in our books.

I also find it amusing that the e92 M3 got so much stick for its looks and girth but I have yet to read one mention of the GT-R' s nastyness. The GT-R too fat? Hey "it's a baby Veyron".

Oh well, the Freep always says, looks are subjective and thus cannot be questioned...... nah, it's ugly.

What's in the Water? pt1 from AxisOfOversteer.com on Vimeo.

What's in the Water? pt2 from AxisOfOversteer.com on Vimeo.

UPDATE: Since this car has sparked one of the biggest debates ever with the readers, I thought I would add this review by Fifth Gear's Jason Plato. His conclusion? Fantastic car on the road, not very good on the track.....discuss


  1. a TURBO car in near freezing weather at that. good for a few extra % ft/lbs. And yes, the Nissan is way overweight.

  2. Overheard while he was driving the Porsche...

    "The traction control working quite hard there. And I'm using it because it's useful!"

    No, you're using it because you're unskilled and you drove the Porsche all wrong.

    ps- and what is with this trend of video magazine hosts doing hard hotlapes without wearing helmets?

  3. The "911 killer" headline always sells magazines, I just wishh they would do a proper test, with a proper data logger, not a Driftbox and published the data...like we did HERE

    the helmet thing does not bother me, they are street cars and it is TV after all. I see Harris has grown his own full face hair helmet anyway!

  4. You can accuse Harris of a lot of things but not a lack of driving talent. With a 3rd in class in the Nurburgring 24 hours (in a 997) and a Group N win in the RAC rally I'll wager that he can drive rings around most non-pro drivers.

  5. Wow, you really hate as much as you possibly can on the GT-R, it must be a prestige thing... why not embrace a new exiting car rather than smashing it down.

  6. No Tob, I specifically said at the beginning of the post that this was not a debate on the GT-R merits, Ok, esthetically I find it offensive, but that's I'm an opinionated bastard when it comes to looks. But there is no doubt it's a engineering achievement.

    My issue is that the "GT-R beats GT3" conclusion in this article is forced.

    I also despise the trend towards 4000lbs sports cars....I think it sucks and is a dead end. All at Axis agree on that , if we could choose, we'd rather have a McF1 than a Veyron...(well.....maybe not Stee these days, but we hope that only a Cayenne induced temporary insanity thing)

  7. I can't believe those conservative reactions! What's the problem with the outside temperature? It was the same temperature for the Nissan! If I bought a Porsche, I would certainly expect the car to be able to perform under those conditions, especially when a crappy Datsun can do it...

  8. Thanks for the clarification... I understand that the cars are in different categories. Conditions, car layout may result in an unfair test but it is still interesting to see how they compare. Im not here to troll i too would take the Mclaren over Veyron :P or a light version of the gt-r with lots of badges on the bootlid hehe

  9. Yeah, it kinda bothered me how people never said anything about the GT-Rs looks. It really doesn't look that beautiful...looks like the R34 and the 350Z had sex and out popped this thing.

    The E92 M3 looks way better than the GT-R IMO.

  10. The thing is if that version is that quick, then the Nismo all singing and dancing V-Spec will be something very special.

    No matter how much people bang on about it being overweight, the bottom line is when done well, clever 4WD, traction control, active suspension etc gives a car with a fallible entity at the wheel such as a human a massive advantage.

    Put it this way, unless your name is Hamilton, I bet you would be quicker around the Ring in the GTR than a Macca F1.

  11. I wouldn't sell the McF1 that short but I would bet that it would be easier to for your hypothetical clueless driver to be faster around the ring in a Veyron than a McF1, especially if it was half wet. But I wonder how he would feel when passed by the JustGoFaster Shed?

    Again, I don't want to take away anything from the GT-R's engineering, especially not having driven one. My beef was with how the conclusion to the article above was arrived at.

  12. I love the new GT-R and I am impressed with its performance. But I have to say head to head tests like this are kind of a joke and did the opposite for me when I saw the results.

    The GT-R was only 0.30 quicker and it was shod in R-compound tires.

    You can dismiss the weather all you want but the fact is an AWD car will perform better in lower traction situations like this and yes 2 degree weather is low traction. Those tires never got up to temp.

    What is the saying from the Subie and Evo crowd? Oh yeah, Pray for Rain.

    The GT-R is a performer but I would be more impressed if it went head to head instead of these games they are playing.

  13. I'm pretty sure the GT-R comes with regular street tires, not a DOT-R like the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup.

  14. I think its a fair and square review, as he discloses all the conditions and doesn't lie about it.
    Also clearly states that he could have gone a bit faster in the GT3 had he done a few more laps with warm tires.

    Despite the weight, the GTR is a great achievement as it really performs and puts the numbers down ("shut up and drive" theory applied to cars). Weight matters the most when the package is not designed effectively to manage it, as in the M3 case where he makes the brake fade completely in just 2 laps!!! (what a POS!!!). He doesn't even hide the fact of it being his car! How much more fairness you want.

    The GTR beats the 997 Turbo and GT3 at the Ring. That's a fact, and so far nobody has said that it is a piece of junk to drive... so it has to be good. Factor in the price and all the tech gone into it and you have a great 21st century car!

    Not having driven the GTR, I would still buy a GT3, just because of the same rationale of why I prefer to track the Exige S than the 997 despite it not being faster at all tracks: Driving enjoyment....

    However, will gladly own a GTR in my garage as formidable all-weather winter weapon of choice. i prefer it 3X over a Z06.

  15. BMW's brake issues and their continued denial there is even is an issue is just a complete mystery to me.

  16. Again, clever electronics gives it superior mechanical grip. I doubt any other car without the electronics and with anything close to the BHP/ton of the GTR would get close. The only way something similar is going to go faster is with a 1G or so of downforce at 100mph.

    Technology guys, you can't beat it. Even Senna couldn't do anything against Mansell in a technologically advancced Williams in 92. Comparing the GTR to a 997 is like comparing a computer with an abacus : )

  17. Hence the smiley.

    But you get my point.

  18. All this math would make my MCoupe a..... :)

  19. Yes, I get your point but I don't agree. The 997 is a very advanced platform and it has plenty of electronics, full-active diffs aside, but the Turbo is already overweight.

    Ps- did anyone see the new Mitsu Evo is well-over 3500 lbs?


  20. indeed! As per Grassroots Motorsports review:
    EVO x. 3517 manual 3594 paddleshift.

    2008 Wrx Sti:

    3395lbs. 305hp/290ft/PBS

    Both on same sized wheels and tires

    Evo has bigger brakes


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